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Location: toronto, ontario, Canada

Friday, November 25, 2005

ouch - no this isn't a climbing post.

so, i've been walking around for days saying ow at odd moments and for no apparent reason. the people who are very close to me have figured out why at this point and everyone else is just assuming i pulled some little muscle at the climbing gym.

which i did, but it's in my shoulder and is not where the owing is coming from. it's coming, in fact, from something else that's been attached to me for at least a decade now. Actually closer to twelve or thirteen years.

no, it's not a body piercing.

what it is, in fact, is something which causes people to change the way they look at me. or not. which tells me a lot about the people in question. in some ways i'm sorry that i won't get to see each and every facial reaction to this post because it would teach me a lot about all of you.

it's not something i volunteered for, in fact it was imposed on me.

it's not something i know the giver of because i didn't notice it the first time.

it's not something i was given a choice about.

it's not something i want or need in my life.

it is something that forces me to pay more attention to sleep and diet and stress than the average person needs to.

those of you who have this already know what i'm talking about. those of you who paid attention in class already know what i'm talking about. for the rest of you?

i have a non life threatening std.

i don't know who gave it to me but i suspect. i don't know because i only noticed my second or third recurrence rather than the first incident and that was so far from any sexual encounters that it couldn't possibly have come from there.

thus it was at least the second outbreak and i really don't know when or how i got it.

some of you will assume from this that i am or was a slut.
some of you will look at me like i'm dirty.
some of you will sit in your ivory towers of luck and judge me.
and some of you will be nodding along with this because you've had this conversation before.

you've had to sit down in front of someone you're hellaciously into but don't know all that well and say:

"uh yeah... i have an STD. Don't worry, it's not one of the fatal ones, it's just herpes and it's sort of like having an extra period or two a year where you can't touch me... and i've never, in the 12 years i've been aware of it, passed it on... but uh... why are you looking at me like that?"

it's probably been the most heartbreaking and yet repeated five minutes of my life.

and the most rewarding.

my ex husband had the best answer ever 'so does this mean we get to have sex soon?' which endeared him to me forever.

but i've been dumped because of it also ... and you know what? that's fair it is. at least i try to make it fair in my head but it *hurts*. it hurts in a deep and woundy place that i never really recover from.

it hurts in a way that even though i haven't had that conversation in at least 4 years i'm still flinching and there are tears in my eyes as i remember it. it hurts in a way that makes me *dread* ever having it again. and that hurt probably explains a lot about my disconnect from my sex drive.

it hurts deeply enough that i have an extremely difficult time with asking someone out. i think it's that if i ask them i'm offering myself and then when i tell them that i have an std i'll feel sort of like i lied in my offering. if they ask me well then of course there's things they don't know that i'll have to tell them over time.

yes, when i type that i see how ridiculous it is. but still. i'm having a borderline panic reaction just from typing this post and there really are tears brimming (but never falling, they never fall... but that's another post) in my eyes.

i've decided to post this because the greatest enemy of health is silence. the biggest way these diseases get passed on is because no one wants to admit that they have them.

did you know that FORTY PERCENT of canadians have genital warts and don't know it?
did you know that one in SIX people has herpes and has no idea? (that may be down to four now)

first of all i just don't understand how anyone can miss it. the burning sensation when you pee on a sore is bad enough but when you touch it or your clothing rubs? oh my lord loving fucking god does it ever hurt? how can you not notice? [okay some women only get sores inside, that's different.]

the ultimate irony of statistics like that? some of the people reading this who are judging me and my life based on this one little fact? probably have something too.

a friend of mine in college, when i got my second std (warts, gone now) laughed her head off. she couldn't help it she really couldn't. and she said 'damn dude, you have the worst luck of anyone i know, you never have sex but you always catch the diseases'

and she's right.

so i decided that since i am not a sleazy person and since i am choosy and all of that that i should actually be out there shedding light into this dark corner... but it's hard you guys, it's really hard. [I do have one request. If i WORK with you and have trusted you with my blog address please keep your mouth shut at work, i just don't need the hassles.]

wow. i can't believe i'm about to post this. anyone anywhere with questions no matter how stupid you think they are? please ask them. if you wish to email me anonymously or in secret and ask about these things and how to spot them? PLEASE do so.

silence spreads disease. so does judgement.

information stops it.

*deep breath*
*clicks publish post*


Blogger sugarpunk said...

yep you are correct with the last statement.. info stops it..

and a very good friend of mine for like 24 yrs... well he has not one but 2 stds.. and the last one diagnosed about 6 months ago..
i dont feel any differently about him.. and would i still do him.. hell YES.. just not at outbreak time.. but he and i dont go down that road.. we are waiting til we have no one left in the world but each other to screw... CUTE .. i know.. i can see us at 70 or so ..

11/25/2005 11:50:00 AM  
Blogger Rachael said...

Brave woman. There are things we carry with us all our lives, kept concealed, that are hidden from fear. The fearlessness you own outweights any of the negative inplications others might impress on you for having this STD. :)

11/25/2005 11:57:00 AM  
Blogger Rachael said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

11/25/2005 11:58:00 AM  
Blogger Blondie said...

Aw, Hun. You are sooooooo brave. I wish I could say more. All I can really say is that you bearing your soul like this only makes me think even more wonderful thoughts of you. It takes so much courage. SO MUCH.

When you can't help what happens, all you can do is hope people understand, right? I might not have this, but I have a tiny idea how hard it must be.

I love ya, Sass. Everyday you let the walls down a little more and all I can do is sit back and shake my head in wonder at how you do it.

11/25/2005 12:01:00 PM  
Blogger sassinak said...

punk: i can tell you for certain that you feeling that way about your friend makes an enormous difference to him. i can tell you that because of the difference such friends have made for me.

because you judge yourself too...

rachael: welcome to snapshots :)

you are correct, there are many things that we hide from ourselves, from our loved ones, from the world and those are the things that most need exposure.

in fact my 12 angry men post was motivated by someone confessing to me that they had been in an abusive relationship.

would that i were fearless... it is only that my convictions outweigh my fears.

blondie: thank you. that means a lot coming from you!

it was really really hard to write this post. that's why i knew that i had to do it. and why i published it right away instead of waiting until tonight... cause then who knows how long i would have waited?

i don't know how i do it blondie, i just know that it must be done :)

*hugs* ladies and thanks

11/25/2005 12:06:00 PM  
Blogger sugarpunk said...

its weird sass .. i mean .. all the women he has dated and such.. im the only one that has a key to his place... drive his truck whenever... and bsically do whatever i want.. mainly because i dont abuse the kindness... and i really love him.. all the way to his bones...

the fact that you laid it out here... i am glad you feel a release... as im sure he did when he told me about the ones he has... good for you.. today the pain will subside.. the mental/emotional pain... you are the biggest risktaker i see out here... *hugs*

11/25/2005 12:21:00 PM  
Blogger castufari said...


Not sure what to say so here goes.

Those who judge you - are they free from flaws? I somehow doubt it. Are they so perfect, so whole that they can sit above their perch and look down on everyone, judging at will? I believe there is only one being who can judge us.

I recall when you told me about herpes. I wasn't totally aware of it then...I knew it was a STD but that was about it. I did a lot of reading and stuff. What did I gain? Compassion. I wasn't one to joke on STDs in the past and knowing someone who had something like herpes gave me a better insight since you didn't fit the mold my stupid stereotyping ass expected.

I applaud you for discussing this publically. It's a lot to reveal about yourself.

Someday I'll post about my depression once I get the balls to do so.

Sass, you rock and are very special.

Thank you for being you.


11/25/2005 01:02:00 PM  
Blogger sassinak said...

punk: it's funny, often it's the people that you don't fuck that end up meaning the most to you. that said, i'm not sure i feel a release exactly, i just feel the need for truth all the time, no matter how hard it is.

today it's pretty hard.

cast: i recall those conversations with you and you earned a deeper place in my heart for them.

i have to teach, more later

11/25/2005 01:29:00 PM  
Blogger grainne said...

Ignorance is one of the biggest hurdles that face so many people. The brave ones leap those hurdles, the cautious and timid will approach carefully and climb over those hurdles, the close-minded will shy away from the hurdle and refuse to look as far as the other side of the obstacle. Those are the people you don't need in your life.

In this day and age, herpes is pretty commonplace - it's not indicative of promiscuity or a person's lifestyle. It's a disease just like any other disease and in the grand scheme of STDs...while it might be damn uncomfortable, it is not deadly. I am sorry you have it but you know what? It doesn't change the way I think about you...on second thought, yes it does! You are willing to share it with us...let people know you have it and show people that here you are a brave, beautiful, intelligent woman who is dealing with a disease that impacts your life in a negative way. I read your blog daily...when I think about you, I think about you physically climbing to conquer obstacles and then I read a post like this and I think about you mentally and emotionally climbing to conquer those unseen obstacles that are hidden deep inside of you. You keep climbing!! ~hugs~

11/25/2005 01:47:00 PM  
Blogger sassinak said...

cast: i think the only person allowed to pass judgement on a person is that person. that said, i have judged in the past... hubris' ex wife for example... i try and try but i judge her harshly nonetheless. funny thing, it's the one std i was always afraid of... so of course it's the one i got *rueful laugh*... and yeah, sometimes i think i got it just to break the stereotypes....

thanks for the applause, i can't really believe i did it... but it's out there now.

*hugs* cast...

grainne: you are correct. people who are afraid to face their lives and their issues tend to fall out of my life because my passion for truth is strong and makes them uncomfortable... i don't even know where it comes from, this passion, i just know i have to feed it. i do love how you put that though.

you are also 100% correct about the commonness of herpes. that said, for some reason there is still stigma attached to it. someday i will say that i have it and someone will say 'me too' but i haven't met them yet. funny in that 1 in 6 statistic isn't it? even more you are right about the very small impact it actually has. the emotional one is huge though.

i'm so glad to hear that i've changed the way you think of me. also wow... i love the idea of me that you have.... i hope that i'm half as courageous as you think i am... if i am that's pretty awesome!

mmmmm she said climbing! *grin*

11/25/2005 04:01:00 PM  
Blogger lividviv said...

i think you must be right, that you can tell a lot about a person when you tell them that. It's best to find out how people will deal with your soft spots early on. I remember my ex telling me he had Something to Tell Me, and, given he was from South Africa, I thought right away, Oh no! It's AIDS. But there was no question. I would have stayed. Course it turned out he was married. HAHAHAHA. That was waaaaay worse. So I guess thinking he was about to tell me he had AIDS was a good test of my feelings for him. Knowing the results of the test was good for me and for him. All relationships have these hurdles, don't they? There's always that Something I Need To Tell You. Like a disability, or an inability to orgasm or unreliable penis, or poverty, or halitosis, or the bends, whatever. People who don't have at least one little issue or failure to challenge them are a little freaky. I don't like having people around who are too lucky anyway!! Often they aren't humble enough, and when they do get humbled (as we all inevitably do), they fall hard.

Your ex' reaction was perfect. Very mature and sweet. Good for him. Don't settle, Sass! You deserve the right person. We all do.

Good luck when the time comes next for that conversation. if you need a pep talk, you know where to find me!!!

11/25/2005 04:35:00 PM  
Blogger Amber said...

Sass thanks for sharing. The fact is that things happen and somethings you have to share with other people, somethings they have to know. It's just wrong not to tell them. So hopefully you have gotten a little strength from sharing so the next big talk will be easier to give. If only all people were willing to give one then there'd be less to worry about.

11/25/2005 05:01:00 PM  
Blogger Dirty Sanchez said...

I had crabs once. It was extremely embarassing. And though I could get rid of it with shampoo and shaving, it has already taken a big piece of my soul.

I had slept with a girl that meant a lot to me and had given it to her. She hated me from there on.

It must really suck to repeat the same emotional nightmare over and over.

11/25/2005 07:05:00 PM  
Blogger sassinak said...

viv: absolutely. i've seen some amazing looks on people's faces when i've told them that and i don't think that i have too many friends who don't know at this point. if i do it's because i think that i told them but i didn't.

anyway most of the time people react pretty well but sometimes there's this indescribeable look that flashes or stays on their face. some combination of horror and disgust and superiority that will probably never stop hurting.

i don't know if i would stay for hiv. but then herpes makes you more susceptible to that sort of infection so my risk factor is a lot higher than the average woman.

dude my ex was immature and not ready to be married but underneath that was an excellent guy that is currently making someone a great husband. he may have been the only person yet who loved me for my idiosyncracies and not in spite of them.

i always need a pep talk for that conversation... no matter how it goes.


11/25/2005 08:54:00 PM  
Blogger sassinak said...

viv: also, you're right, perfect people are really hard to be around.

amber: you're welcome.

and yes, no matter what i *have* to have that conversation with someone before i get particularly intimate with them. so before i've really had a chance to even be awesome or captivating i have to hand them a huge dealbreaker. and i get strength every time someone reacts the way the folks here have done. i don't believe that it will ever get easier though.

if only someone had had it with me. i deserved a choice.

jesse: dude i hear those suck. like a lot. at least they aren't permanent but still.

i can't really comprehend why she would hate you for that. maybe be a little disappointed or upset but hate? i'm sad that she wasn't mature enough to handle it with more grace.

you didn't deserve that jess you didn't.

and yes, it really really really sucks.

so being me i tossed it at the internet so i could do it in public and have it be out there forever.

*shakes head at self while laughing ruefully*

11/25/2005 09:06:00 PM  
Blogger othercat said...

Not long ago, my doctor recommended I have a test for HIV. Until the results were in, I was quite nervous that it would turn out positive, even though I've had a small number of sexual partners. Fortunately, the test was negative, and I was able to relax. Uncertainty and ignorance are big killers. Avoiding the truth and not dealing with whatever problem you may have is worse than the problem itself. I've got to hand it to you for starting some valuable discourses Sass.

11/25/2005 09:19:00 PM  
Blogger sassinak said...

every time i have an hiv test [even if i haven't had sex since the last one] i'm nervous. every single time.

i hate the motherfucking things but i still get them every couple of years or every partner, whichever comes first.

you are correct about both ignorance and uncertainty but that doesn't make it easier *wry smile*

yeah dude you're right about that too. facing problems head on is the only way but it's still really fucking hard to do.

thanks oc, i try to be truthful and see what happens...

11/25/2005 09:27:00 PM  
Blogger Everything Nice said...

since Jess was wielding my lap top earlier I did not have a chance to read this and comment.

First let me say how much I commend you on your courage in posting this publicly. You have great strength and a knack for being so ultimately truthful its refreshing to me.

You are somebody that should be in front of the line, red carpeted, and looked up to.

I praise you Sass.

On another note though, it sounds as if you have acceptance of this and you will continue to live on with this being only a small inconvenience to you... I admire that also.

So admirable you. dammit. I love ya.

Think of it this way... If any asshole can't be mature enough to realize there's only potential for infection during flare ups and you're still the warm, beautiful, creative, and ambitious woman you are 24/7?

They're missing out.
yes they are.

shhhhh. yes, they are.

11/25/2005 09:52:00 PM  
Blogger castufari said...

What kills me is how many people will just turn and run away. Let's see...you have strong feelings for someone...everything else looks good, and you're going to run over this? No "gee, how does this affect me?". I did a lot of reading on it and plenty of people never get it thanks to education.

if someone runs and points and screams then you're way too damn good for them anyway.

11/25/2005 10:00:00 PM  
Blogger sugarpunk said...

*applause* for castis commnet

11/25/2005 11:08:00 PM  
Blogger sassinak said...

what punk said.

bubbles: i had a feeling you would show up... this post is mildly freaking me out although i'm fully glad that i made it.

anyway thank you for the commendation. i appreciate every one of them. still waiting for someone to say me too... (though jess did in a historical sense, and props to her for it!)

it's weird to think of myself as a person of strength but when i look back on my life i see that it must be true. i try to live by the expression 'be the change you wish to see in the world' and i wish for kindness and truth and compassion and sharing. that doesn't make it easy.

thank you for thinking that people should look up to me, i don't know if that's something that i aspire to but i think that i would enjoy it.

i was happy to hear that i had inspired someone recently. you see if i think something nice i try to say it. whether i tell a stranger that i like her shirt or my friend that i like their trait of kindness... anyway someone did that too from seeing me do it :)

made me really happy.

it's easy to accept something that you've had for like 12 years. hard at first though. thank you for thinking that's admirable but time heals as you know :)

*huggles bubbles*

i know that they're assholes but it still feels like someone that you care about is rejecting you.

there are a few people who could have had me and didn't want me. i choose to believe that that was a good thing in the long run :)

11/25/2005 11:37:00 PM  
Blogger SignGurl said...

Your willingness to put yourself out there for the good of your fellow man is commendable.

I wonder if you feel better having said it? I would think that it's a huge burden off your shoulders.

I have only had one sexual partner but often worry that if he has strayed, he will bring something unwanted into our marriage. Everytime I get any blood tests, I hold my breath. I always panick with the HIV test.

I would NEVER judge you because you can only control so much of what happens to your body i.e. you just never know for sure where your parnter has been.

Anyway, I am amazed at your frankness and enjoy getting to know more about you. :)

11/26/2005 12:16:00 AM  
Blogger sassinak said...

jenn the truth is that *i* am amazed at my frankness. i fully can't believe that i said that out loud. i'm still glad i did.

i wish more people did.

i don't know if i feel better for it. i'm not dating any of you and as far as i know no one that reads my blog has intentions of asking me out. :)

it's not so much the friends that are hard to tell it's the possible long term partners. those ones can really hurt you.

i don't think anyone ever feels safe with the blood tests. no matter who they are and no matter how much they trust their partner.

thank you for not being judgemental. more people should consider that option :)

11/26/2005 12:44:00 AM  
Blogger Johnny Canuck said...

Love ya Sass!
You are the bravest person I know.
Sorry you are a little ouchier than usual.

11/26/2005 02:09:00 AM  
Blogger sassinak said...

johnny: thank you

i don't really think of myself as brave but i'm glad to be accused of bravery *grin*

11/26/2005 11:34:00 AM  
Blogger Everything Nice said...

K, i have to get back to Bob the Builder...

no, he's not a hot stud... he's Saturday cartoons.



11/26/2005 01:32:00 PM  
Blogger sassinak said...

i actually knew that :)

have fun with builder bob

checking mail

11/26/2005 04:02:00 PM  
Blogger DZER said...

and here I thought I was frank and open ... LOL

seriously, sass, you rizzy-razzy-rock, hon. and I agree with many others here: you are brave and courageous.


11/26/2005 06:55:00 PM  
Blogger sassinak said...

dzer: you seem pretty open to me... and i consider you a man of courage and principle whether you do or not.

i will tell you that this group makes it exceedingly easy to be truthful

11/26/2005 09:06:00 PM  
Blogger da buttah said...

if people can't love you for everything you are, they aren't worth it.

a hard pill to swallow when something about you is the the major thorn in the equation, but it's a pill that weeds out the downright assholes from the people who may just be worth something.

always a silver lining :)

like everyone above, i admire your bravery and courage...and love you even more for being so open about everything. i wish i could be that open about petty things in my life, let alone life altering ones.

11/27/2005 12:15:00 PM  
Blogger sassinak said...

buttah: you're totally right, but that doesn't make it hurt any less when you see the rejection in someone's eyes.

some silver linings are a lot harder to take than others. this is one of them. i just don't see how it's really helped me grow. i guess it's helped other people grow because of my example and i guess that's a worthwhile thing but i just don't like it.

the thing with being open? the more you do it the more you do it. and eventually you have no sense of personal privacy :)

you know what's funny? i was really hoping that the comments would inspire folks to tell stories of their experiences of conversations like this... on either end.

and other than jesse noone really has. which means either that the statistics are wrong or that some of y'all aren't sharing.

11/27/2005 03:55:00 PM  
Blogger Daywalker said...

I don’t think there is an easy answer to something like this, unfortunately human nature tends to be very primal so when we approach a sexual partner and find things that are “off” then our instinctive tendencies are to stand back or “reject” that partner.

I can see how that would hurt – definitely!

It would take a lot of courage to have to mention it to someone you want to have intimate relations with – what a drag.

I do believe it’s becoming so common now though considering all the commercials that are on.

I’ll be honest it does kind of freak me out a bit especially because most people that get it from a partner was during a time that partner didn’t have any visible symptoms! Yikes!

I guess the main thing to me would be how the heck do you protect your self from an unseen enemy?

I have heard of people that have gotten it from a towel used by an infected person (it manifested itself on their face instead though)… not sure if this is true or not.

I think one reason I don’t go out looking for one-nighters is because I’m paranoid in general about getting something like this... :(


11/27/2005 04:59:00 PM  
Blogger sassinak said...

daywalker i always appreciate your comments because you don't take the easy side of the argument.

it does hurt when people reject you for something that you can't control... however i can completely sympathise with the instinctive rejection. i recall a man a while back who turned out to have hepatitis. it took a lot of thought for me to decide not to reject him. ultimately we just fooled around a few times but still... definite thought process... and if he had said hiv?

it is definetely a drag! and it never stops being one.

i got it super early in my sexual life... i do believe that i would spot it today and also that my increased caution regarding who i sleep with would make an enormous difference.

you protect yourself using condoms and by only sleeping with people you trust and by hoping for a dose of good luck.

i don't know if i believe the towel story myself although i expect that it's possible... highly unlikely though.

it's definetely a huge part of why i don't go looking for one nighters...

11/27/2005 05:47:00 PM  
Blogger Daywalker said...

Hey Sass,

I wasn't condoning rejectin or anything. I'm just saying that its the first reation I think we have. Or at least its a surprise..LOL

Well you know what I mean. See I'm not sure myself what I would do if a girl I really like tells me she has an STD... I really don't. I'm hoping it would be a mor epositive reaction...

I'm really not sure *shrug*... I guess it depends on each idividual situation. I would like to NOT hurt that persons feelings if anything...


11/27/2005 08:55:00 PM  
Blogger sassinak said...

hey daywalker :)

i didn't think you were condoning rejection, just putting yourself in the shoes of the person who is getting the news rather than that of the person giving it.

which is a perspective that i don't really have you see :)

i know exactly what you mean because i myself don't know how i would react to that news. makes for funnyness really.

if you handle it with grace their feelings are less hurt. that's about all i can tell you...

11/27/2005 09:33:00 PM  
Blogger da buttah said...

not sure what i have to share.

everyone knows i was a druggy....everyone knows i was suicidal.....most people know how much physical shit i've had to endure.

anything you want to know, let me know :) i'm an open book!

11/27/2005 09:42:00 PM  
Blogger sassinak said...

elle: i didn't know those things aobut you but i suspected them from things that you've said. it's truly frightening how many awesome women i know (including me) who have been or are suicidal. it's like extra sick somehow.

i was a bit concerned that you would think i meant you specifically weren't sharing... i just meant it in a group sense. i wish others would share their handling of such subjects on either side... :)

as for the physical shit i'm getting that you've had some pretty intense medical shit but i don't know much other than your spine and some recent surgical scariness with baby making potential.

and what a horrible thing to experience that would be!

hrm, i guess i know more than i think.

11/27/2005 09:55:00 PM  
Blogger Natalia said...

I'm with Dzer..there I thought I was so honest for talking about PCOS and weight gain and here you are talking about something far more private anddifficult to talk about. You absolutely rock my world!

Sorry you have been ouchy {{{huggerz}}} I hope it goes away soon.

To hell with the people that judge you. We all have things we have to deal with and an STD is not something you brought upon yourself. Even those who are choosy and take all precautions are exposed. It can happen to any of us. No one should judge you.

And you are to be commended for talking about it and being honest with your partners. There are some out there who would rather save themselves the humiliation of having the conversation and risk infecting others. You are brave and honesty is always the best policy. If a guy walks away because of that, then you know what you are dealing with.

All my love xoxoxox


11/28/2005 11:01:00 AM  
Blogger Hubris said...

Wow Sass, I am moved by your courage. Having the polar opposite of your affliction, I have experienced all of the same criticisms as you only not nearly to the same intensity. I, at least in part, understand. *coughing, passes bowl*

Rotten people are rotten, Nicht?

11/28/2005 02:35:00 PM  
Blogger sassinak said...

natalia: i don't think that talking about PCOS and weight gain is any less honest than what i'm talking about. you're talking about something that you can't control that has caused you emotional and physical pain. okay maybe mine is supposed to be more private but it must have taken courage for you to post about your personal health issues.

i'm glad i rock your world though! and the ouchy is about gone now. was nice to have a shower and not want to screech.

it's so funny how you say no one *should* judge you.. that's the key word... they shouldn't, but they do.

someone once didn't give me a choice and possibly i shared a disease i didn't know that i had because of it. that's inexcusible and i would never do the same thing. damn moral convictions are tough but at least i can look myself in the face when i look in the mirror!

hubris: thanks dude. i don't really know where the courage came from but i'm glad that i did it!

*cough* inhale *cough* pass bowl :)

and yeah, mean people suck!

11/28/2005 03:08:00 PM  

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