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Location: toronto, ontario, Canada

Thursday, March 30, 2006

just

.
i've been thinking about tr a lot lately. maybe a little bit because he's still the last man i was involved with even though it's three years ago. maybe kind of because i'm falling into his circles again without even trying... that's hard not to do based on our many common interests. maybe because sometimes i wonder what would have happened if we'd known each other longer before i broke. perhaps because when you've had a really long drought you start to wonder if maybe that ex wasn't so bad after all.

the thing is i don't think that tr was a bad guy. he wasn't the right guy for me i don't think... but not a bad guy. we broke up pretty ugly unfortunately but sometimes i wonder if that's actually bad.

staying friends is, after all, an extremely difficult thing to do.

we were stuck living together for almost two months after we split up, and we split up like children. there was petulance and whining and sniping. we were mean to each other. there was (his word) terseness and snark (my word).

there were moments of shared company; a few joints, some mutual friends' visits, a little tv, some smiling and the like.

but he got colder and colder and i got bitchier and bitchier. i wonder what would have happened if i had managed to move sooner.

it was like we took delight in hurting each other. which was probably some sick way of expressing continued caring *lmao* or something.

i've broken up friendly before as well, don't get me wrong. where you don't break up your friends [neither tr nor i ever asked anyone to choose fyi] and you can still be seen together at parties and sometimes you go out for lunch.

but from the distance i currently have from basically everyone i've ever been in bed with i have to say that i'm beginning to think that an ugly breakup is better. (please note that the words ugly divorce were NOT uttered. those fucking suck)

it's final and sudden. there's a quick stab to the heart and some lingering wonder and regret. and then it's just over.

just like that.

you go on with your lives along totally seperate tracks and are basically never reminded of each other again. sure you end up at a party or two together for a while but eventually one of you falls away. and that's it, it's done. there's no re-exposure, no re-infection and definetely no pining.

well okay it's probable that there's some pining sometimes but it's hard to pine for something that's never around.

i see couples sometimes that used to date and that still hang out and there's a strangeness to it. sometimes it's fine, like when it was years and years ago and they're married to other people and so on. and even then sometimes there's a thing there still.

but when neither of them are dating other people and they're still hanging out there is nearly always some kind of string that is still there for both of them.

sometimes it's just sex, but it would be cheap to dismiss all such occurences so simply. occasionally i think it really is just a thing where two people go "oops we're supposed to be friends" and that's the end of it, but i think that's the exception.

mostly there's a boy carrying a torch or a girl needing the attention. a girl who needs help and a boy who loves to come running. a boy who needs rescuing and a girl who loves to rescue. whatever, there's some thing there.

i don't think it's love all the time or even a desire to rekindle the romance. i think it's more that they're still filling some needs for each other, and i wonder if that's a mistake.

like when you're searching for someone to date there are a lot of needs to fill, it's never just sex or cuddling. if it were it would be so much easier to find dateable folks. so when you split up and stay friends you still have your buddy you did x or y with. or that person who always helps with whatever or the guy you climb with. i mean anything.

so then you don't go and find someone else to do that with, that little space of need in your personal jigsaw puzzle is falsely filled. does that make it harder to find someone new? is it better to just break right up with someone, anyone that you used to love? it does have the benefit of opening all your little jigsaw puzzle bits right?

i don't know.

i do know that damm jack johnson rocks. i bought curious george. also a pile of other cds that i haven't played yet. ask me how weird i am, here's the list:
fiona apple - extraordinary machine
bowie - best of
johnny cash - 16 greatest hits
buddy guy - buddy's blues
ramones - mania
sufjan stevens - come on feel the illinois
[sunrise is having a 100 cds for 9.99 sale and there's some GOOD stuff on the list fyi]

:)

came home, opened jack johnson, pressed repeat and that's it. the others will come into play in the next few weeks... and then a new mix will appear in my car!

anyway i am now torn between the stripes and jack johnson's version of 'we're going to be friends' and i will end up choosing the white stripes because they did it first, but they're both so lovely and so slightly different. they will both be on my next mix though... just well separated.

ahhh brilliance.

that's the thing with the exes... they're usually always the people that you met and went 'you will matter in my life' [or "I can tell that we are gonna be friends"] and then sometimes you end up dating and sometimes you end up friends. but that initial spark or tie or connection is there and that's the thing that maybe you shouldn't have around?

i wrestle with this because i have had some great men in my life and i've wanted to keep them around. often we've tried and failed. sometimes it's only that i went and moved across the country. again. and thus we lost touch.

but there have been some multi year friendships off my exes in the past. and then there's dw who still pops up and asks me to get back together like 9 years later. so he's still nursing a connection with me that i've told him repeatedly is dead.

so is every friendship false? is someone always pining? when i think that i'm friends with an ex is it actually that one of us is secretly wishing to have the other one back? it might just be, i mean i've known a lot of women who seemed to think that getting more available would make their exes come running back.

seems to me that that one is a case of 'living well is the best revenge' really. people rarely want what they can easily have.

i've been thinking of asking tr for coffee. not because i want him back but because there's some bad blood there and it would be nice to lance the wound... but then i wonder, do i really want that man as my friend?

and if i want him as my friend is it still better not to do it?

36 Comments:

Anonymous Princess Valium said...

First!

I dunno, man. I got to know you at the end of your relationship with tr and I hung with him then. As I've always said, I personally have no problem with the guy, but I can recall how much hurt, anger and reminders-of-childhood-rejection the demise of your relationship brought out in you.

If you want to mend fences with tr, I'm all for it. Be cautious...who knows how your brain will react. I would hate to see you go back to that dark place, even if it's in memory or in baby steps. And I would be certain of your motivations (even the deep, dark ones we prefer not to think about) before venturing into exploring a friendship.

That being said, it would be great 'closure' and make socializing more comfortable.

The caveat to that is, of course, I've never seen it happen in real life.

I've seen some people who are friends with their exes, but it's a friendship borne of necessity (shared family, shared friends, loneliness) and eventually almost all of them drifted apart in a non-acrimonious kind of way. Which isn't all bad, because it's better to feel neutral about your ex than angry.

Speaking from my own (limited) experience, I've never had a truly acrimonious breakup, but I am not friends with any of my exes either. With two of them, we tried to be friends, but eventually drifted and it was cool. There's no hard feelings, just a neutrality there.

Maybe that's where you need to get with tr. To neutrality.

3/30/2006 07:36:00 PM  
Blogger la lonely girl said...

i dunno, cuz i just recently came off the whole 'just friends' rollercoaster.
but the thing that pops into my head is what if he's an arse to you and doesn't even want to see you or is not able to go down that road at all?

remember when he bolted down the back stairs when he heard you were walking in the door at your friend's house that one time? he may not be able to do coffee, or friends, etc...

i dunno...but i do have to say, be careful.

3/30/2006 09:06:00 PM  
Blogger kathi said...

I don't have any idea who tr is or what your relationship with him was like. But, I always say to follow your gut. I think your gut is pretty damn good, too.

3/30/2006 10:09:00 PM  
Blogger terry said...

oooh, that's a tough one. a really tough one.
well, as kathi says, you have an excellent gut... so go with that.

i had a really awful breakup with the ex-hub, and a few years later, when i decided it was okay to let him back into my life a little (even though i never thought we could really be "true" friends), he ended up pissing me off so much that i banished him again.

and i can't honestly think of anyone in my life who has remained friends with their exes. only the ones who had short romantic involvements.

i'd wish you luck, but you're already fully aware of all the potential pitfalls.

3/30/2006 10:31:00 PM  
Blogger sassinak said...

PV: it was even weirder, when you met tr and i we still liked each other... and then you ran off to amsterdam and came back to us learning to hate each other.

and yeah, there was a lot of bullshit that went along with that breakup, i still don't know how much was accident related and how much was him but i know a lot of it was him.

what's funny is we're both thinking about similar types of caution... i think i could handle the whole whatever he throws at me but i'm not sure how my brain will feel about it for sure. and yeah, i don't know quite what my motivations are and i have to tell you i so don't want to think that one of them might be wanting him back. that would be kind of sick.

but god damm the closure would be awesome... and yeah, me too with the caveat... it's just the idea of neutrality there sounds pretty excellent... it's hard knowing there's such bad blood there.

we're due a brunch dude.


lalo: are you now not speaking to him? for your sake i kinda hope so...

i think that if he's an arse or can't go down that road i'm okay. i'll know i tried and i'll know that he knows that the door is open.

i do remember that, and i remember that it amused me and made me sad but that it didn't hurt me... so i feel relatively safe. i don't want to hurt either of us... but i'm starting to think about this a lot...


kathi: damm my gut says to call him... and it's been getting louder. my gut is great except with men i have any kind of romantic connection with, then it sucks.


terry: fuckin' right it is... but i thought that y'all would enjoy it.

i have an ex like that, no one in the world can piss me off in under five minutes like he can. it probably means something about lingering feelings but i don't care, i just don't want him around.

i can't think of anyone either and that's a big food for thought for me.

luck can't hurt anyway right?

3/30/2006 11:49:00 PM  
Blogger HuneeB said...

I think they all gave great advice so I am not really sure what to say, I actually have had the opposite where I am friends with most of my exes, soemtimes it can be a little weird but in general it works okay. Be but have to be careful and know EXEACTLY why you have a desire to be friends with them or want to travel down that road. But don't listen to us you know you best I would go with the gut! :)

Good luck in whatever choice you make and I am sure you will make the one that best suits you. I think if you reread your post it almost sounds like you have already made up your mind and weighed in the pros and cons...

Oh and I love the Curious George Jack, it makes me feel happy :) (I even saw the movie and I loved it!)

*skips in bouncing head side to side*

*gives you a big hug*

Just cause I thought you needed it :)

3/30/2006 11:53:00 PM  
Blogger HuneeB said...

oh and because it was brought to my attention that I was vry rude...

Is it okay that I linked ya?

3/30/2006 11:54:00 PM  
Blogger sassinak said...

hunneeeee: it's funny, i wasn't exactly looking for advice, more other people's thoughts and expeciences in this realm. i mean i distill it all and add it to my thoughts always but yeah i just like to see what other people think about stuff :)

i miss my friend tr. i want to know if that friend was imaginary... and if he wasn't? i would like to hang out with him again, not often, not for hours on end... but i want him in my acquaintance circle.

wow that's weird.

i think i've already made up my mind too... but i still want to hear other people's take on it :)

*yay for huggs!*

yes of course it's okay and that's never rude :)

3/31/2006 12:03:00 AM  
Blogger HuneeB said...

well I should have asked everyone it is more polite..who knows they may not want to be associated with me? Never know..

3/31/2006 12:32:00 AM  
Blogger sassinak said...

i've never asked permission to link anyone... but i'm pretty slow to do it these days... i used to comment on people's blogs to tell them i linked them but that's really all i ever do.

i say have at it and damm their eyes *grin*

3/31/2006 12:38:00 AM  
Blogger HuneeB said...

:)

Well Thanks!

I am sort of bored I should be writing my paper but I just can't seem to...

Whatcha doin?

3/31/2006 02:51:00 AM  
Blogger sassinak said...

when you asked i had gone to bed already... there's this book i'm trying to finish...

did you get your paper done?

oh and welcome!

3/31/2006 07:58:00 AM  
Blogger Matt Vella said...

Just be careful, Sass. Make sure you're doing it to heal and leave it there.

Make sure too that you've got enough distance between the breakup and the wound lancing.

3/31/2006 09:20:00 AM  
Blogger stoned.nerd said...

nice read as usual, sass.

sometimes i think the memories have a tendency to reverberate during lingering periods of loneliness.

3/31/2006 09:23:00 AM  
Blogger Hubris said...

Sass- Personaly, I could be friends with my ex. I refuse to allow that to happen. I can let go but I need her to be out of sight and life in order to do that. Besides, it would never just be her around ya know? She's sorta attached to the rest of her tribe. And for one second- do you really think I want to see her with a child in the future? I could not, no matter how I try, see past a life we destroyed to see the beauty in the one she left me for.

Go back? NEVER
Glad its over? ABLOLUTELY
Feel free again? YUP
Happier without her? OF COURSE
Jealous and angry because someone else is with her despite how hard I tried for her? YOU BET YOUR FUCKING ASS

Mine just may be far more clear cut than yours but that is for you to call. I ran out of tears for what has happened. Dry. I do not want this memory but I'll always have it. It shall surface far less if the person in those memories is not unlike a memory herself.

I'm glad you wrote it but this post makes me shake with anger and sadness. Please don't apologize, I'm really okay.

HH

3/31/2006 09:29:00 AM  
Blogger Natalia said...

Different things work for different people and in different situations. I don't know if one is better than the other. I have been in both...and I have been in bad break-ups that then became good or OK friendships. I think you see the ugliest bits of people when they do their breaking up. If someone can be nice while breaking up and genuinely nice at that...then that is a person worth holding on to as a friend. But also people are hurt when they break up... also depending on who does the breaking up...so some of the things said and done are out of pain and not real feelings.

Man breaking up fucking sucks but it is a part of life and it tells you a lot about who you are and what your limits are.

And I think it is normal to think about exes. It doesn't mean you want them back. Mostly, I think we miss the feeling of being with someone... not the person.

Maybe I am not making sense...Maybe I will now shut up. My last break-up sucked and it was good it was quick, sure...but it wasn't good because I will never know why.

*sigh*

-N

3/31/2006 10:00:00 AM  
Blogger sassinak said...

matt: i think i am, it was three years ago this june that we split up and it doesn't feel hrm how to put this... it doesn't make me scared or nervous, it just feels right.

weird as fuck but right.

i think three years should be enough? i hope :)


nerd: thanks!

i think for sure memories do that. it's like your brain going 'look look someone was in love with us once!'


hubris: i don't see how you could be friends with her. maybe in years and years but for now wouldn't the sense of betrayal be too much? i mean she kind of dragged you through the coals long past time to quit after all, it's got to be hard to be friends with that.

it's so weird that she has a tribe. and yet i'm still glad it all happened cause i really like the guy you're becoming without her oppressive presence in your life...

you're not really jealous, you're pissed someone could give her what you couldn't but you don't want her anymore yourself... least i think so.

she is like a memory anyway isn't she? i mean she's nothing like the woman you knew for a decade, she's become a new person...

i'm sad that you're shaking but i'm no longer apologising for how my posts effect people, i've decided that it's good for them :)


nat: yeah i don't know what's better or not better myself. i wonder maybe if the bad breakup doesn't sort of end up facilitating the friendship... cause you're all really healed before you befriend each other... instead of some weird pretend friendship while you're both reeling and wounded.

tr and i were hurt badly i think when we broke up... enough that i suspect we both wonder what might have happened if i hadn't gotten broken. i mean we thought we were it for each other. it was really hard to let that imaginary future go.

so yeah, we were evil as hell. and i was in no way blameless. petulant bitch was i.

yeah i think you're right, i miss being coupled but i don't want tr back... i do want to wash away the bad blood though.

stop that! you have NEVER once failed to make sense, stop implying that you ever do!

not knowing why is the total worst. total worst.

3/31/2006 11:19:00 AM  
Blogger Natalia said...

Well it's just that with these things it feels like a crapshoot...so I don't know if I am making any sense. I feel that mostly when it comes to relationships we are all a bit blind and just feeling our way. *le sigh*

-N

3/31/2006 11:27:00 AM  
Blogger sassinak said...

nat you're so right, i don't think anyone ever feels like their advice or thoughts on this crap is worth anything, but we all do the best we can.

but so far? whenever you think you aren't making sense? you SO ARE!

*le sigh* *giggle*
:)

3/31/2006 11:38:00 AM  
Blogger Light Strikes A Deal said...

I can't really comment on this post. I've got to go look in a mirror and think for a while.

I've got some friends that I've had to let go for one reason or another. It's never good, but sometimes it's for the best just to leave certain people in the past. I think.

3/31/2006 12:26:00 PM  
Blogger Matt Vella said...

K, just makin' sure. :)

3/31/2006 12:50:00 PM  
Blogger Will said...

I had to give this one a serious think, as it's quite a gear change from "The Finer Points of Snoopy Dancing." :-)

I'm a *little* bit confused as to what it is you actually want to accomplish here. Are you looking to erase the bad blood between you, or are you hoping to regain some semblance of the "let's hang out" friendship you once had? Do you want both?

If things go badly, I think it's highly unlikely that they could go as badly as they did the first time, just as I'm fairly confident that you couldn't be hurt as much as you were then. That's not to say it would be easy, just much less painful. However, if things go well, you will have mananged to - at the very least - heal it up. It seems, IMHO, that this is an important thing you want to do before your lives take you further away from each other.

If you want my take on it? I'd say go for it. If you really don't have any of "those" feelings hiding under the surface, then you should be ok as, you have nothing to lose and everything to gain. But...from reading the comments here, there are an awful lot of people (including me) who are worried about you. Worried that you might not even be aware of deeper feelings, and that you could get hurt again. And all in the name of healing, too. If you think that this really is the best thing that you could do, then I say, let nothing stop you.

Also, you didn't give those of us who don't know you that well very much background on TR. Is he seeing someone now? Or engaged/married, etc? Because if he is in any kind of relationship right now, you're good, honest intentions may be seen as a threast to whomever he's with. That may doom the whole thing from the start.

I've babbled (almost) enough. For my part, I'm not really friendly with most of my ex's, but sometimes that's just the nature of the beast. My last serious (5 1/2 years) girlfriend told me once about year into dating her, that "if we ever break up, I'll hate you." Yeah...fucking scary. But it also told me that if we ever did split up, I'd have to write her off. And that's exactly how it went, sadly.

Anywho, it's obvious - at least to myself and a few others - that you've already made up your mind about what to do. That's a good thing. But just remember that whatever happens, good or bad, we'll all be waiting here to make sure you're looked after...at least as much as "fake" internet friends can. ;-)

Good luck, Sass.

3/31/2006 01:18:00 PM  
Blogger sassinak said...

lsd: let us know what you come up with. what inspires such thinking?

i've definetely had to let people go in the past and sometimes it's better than others. there are definetely people that i miss and others that i still never want to see again. tough call and all.


matt: we shall see right?


scat: well you know, i'm a thoughtful girl and every now and then i reward my faithful readers with some fun. watch this space for a scintillating post about climbing shoes anytime now.

well it's not so much that i want to accomplish anything as that hrm how to put this. the bad blood between us bugs me and i want to get rid of it. i really like the idea of lancing or cauterizing you know? if we're friends after that? great.

oh client is here!

3/31/2006 02:00:00 PM  
Blogger da buttah said...

hi.

my name is elle, and i'm the single human being who does not care for jack johnson in the least bit.

as for the friends with the ex thing..i can't do it.

not at the start. you need time apart, you need time to grow away from what was there, in order to come back and not be clouded/jaded/bitter/hoping for a union.

when my ex says "i still want to be friends", i always say "then call me in a month when you aren't thought of as my boyfriend"

then again, i'm a bitch like that..hehe

3/31/2006 03:22:00 PM  
Blogger sassinak said...

okay where was i when i was so rudely interrupted by my job... ah yes...

scat: okay so i don't have any real expectations and i'm also in agreement with you that they won't ever be that bad again. they can't be, i have scar tissue in those places now. and yeah, i don't really know why i want to do it but it feels important.

i don't think 'those' feelings are hiding under the surface but hey, i can't read my own mind right? and yeah i'm a bit wondering at myself and my motivations... but i think they're pretty pure. and dude i share those concerns i really do.

i don't know shit about what he's doing now because we don't speak and our friends don't speak to us of each other... last i heard he was single but that was a year ago.

i think he's pretty rational though and would grok my good intentions.... i hope.

wow, she really said that? i can see her point for a year or two but after that? get over it chica.

*snicker* way to get me on old posts!


elle: hi

it's okay, i don't love system of a down and all my friends think i'm weird for it...

i can't do it right away, but i think that after years it's possible. i mean my ex husband and i hated each other for at least a year and now we email and talk regularly.

and i say the same thing. if you want to be friends for real? call me in a year when i'm over the relationship...

i agree with you all over that :)

3/31/2006 05:01:00 PM  
Anonymous clarity said...

Well, I don't have any advice, but I am curious to see what will happen if you do call tr. Which it sounds like that's the direction you're going in.

I have been able to remain friends with two ex's but it was years between the relationship and friends. And they were brief shallow little, like two date "relationships" from highschool and then I met the guys again much later in life.

And I think even with all that distance and that we're all married to other people with kids, my current still gets a bit jealous when we see each other, although oddly enough he and the ex's have a lot in common, and seem to get along.

Was that a run-on sentence or what?

Whatever you do, keep us posted.

4/01/2006 12:34:00 AM  
Blogger sassinak said...

hey clarity: i'm curious to see what will happen too. i won't call, too sudden. i'll drop an email line in the water and wait.

but yeah, i think i might just do it.

i don't know that tr and i can be friends, but i want him not to flee when he hears i'm coming.... you know?

i like run on sentences... and i promise to let y'all know asap if i do anything

4/01/2006 02:33:00 AM  
Blogger DZER said...

dudette ... I'm way so not in any way capable right now of dealing with the depth and resonance of your post (you continually amaze with the frequency of these, by the way)

so lemme just say ... oomph

*hugs and such*

4/01/2006 03:28:00 AM  
Blogger HuneeB said...

:) It's okay Sass, how was the book?

Hey Q is Dzer from Guam...I think I read that, I guess I could not be so f'in lazy and just check his profile, my step mom's fam lived in Guam for a LONG time...

So what is the email going to say? Gonna write it and wait or just fly by spontanous and send it?

4/01/2006 05:18:00 AM  
Blogger DZER said...

yes, DZER is from Guam :)

4/01/2006 10:01:00 AM  
Blogger sassinak said...

dzer: s'allright dude, it's nice to know that you read it and that it hit you... and that i amaze you, i sort of amaze myself, i don't really get where some of it comes from

oomph... nice response

*huggs*


hun: i haven't finished it STILL... and i'm getting really close. damm busy life interfering with my reading time.

i'll write it and then see if i want to sit and perk or send it... but i won't know til after i write it...

4/01/2006 10:54:00 AM  
Blogger HuneeB said...

reading is good

4/01/2006 12:46:00 PM  
Blogger HuneeB said...

complete randomness I know

4/01/2006 12:46:00 PM  
Blogger sassinak said...

the shirt i'm wearing in my profile pic says 'reading is sexy'

4/01/2006 04:38:00 PM  
Blogger Matt Vella said...

I'll admit:

I think reading is sexy

and

I like Jack Johnson, and not just cuz he's from San Diego. :)

4/01/2006 11:01:00 PM  
Blogger sassinak said...

matt for serious, i already think you're hot... this is

NOT HELPING!

4/01/2006 11:57:00 PM  

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