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Location: toronto, ontario, Canada

Wednesday, June 28, 2006


pile and i went out for dinner tonight and i picked up the cheque. i did this because he's a pov and i'm ever so slightly less pov than he is this week. that was pretty much the whole reason.

i'm not calling myself rich by any stretch of the imagination. i mean i make a decent living but i'll only die rich if i turn myself into a brand name or consider alternate careers. fortunately i only need to die with enough money in the bank to pay for the burial since i don't expect to leave kids behind.

nonetheless, i expect my standard of living to continue to improve.

now last night a lovely young man um... think of a nick... crap i hate thinking up nick names... uh, anyway you know how you end up going for dinner after a gathering sometimes? like climbers leaving the gym will often end up going out together for beer or food.

in this particular case i don't think anyone else was invited.

anyway, off we go for dinner and yapping and then he insists on paying for dinner. and not the kind of insists where the person with an income assists the person without one. the other kind.

which, i decided, gives me license to flirt with him, even if it does make me a cougar. the thing is? my buying dinner for pile is totally meaningless in that context. (first of all pile's gay)

so i got to thinking about things like paying for dinner. initiating hanging out. asking for contact information. conjuring up further meetings and so on. and then i got to thinking about the definition of a date.

there are people who would declare that since i went for dinner and a beer with uh... damm nicknames... him that we were on a date.

there are folks who won't say that but will say that since he paid for dinner... we were on a date.

there are those who will say that since we didn't make out... we weren't on a date.

there are still others who suggest that because our plans were not made in advance we clearly weren't on a date.

and again since we didn't specifically plan a next meeting... not so much.

so you could really go in any direction you wanted here.

i'm in the no kissy = no date-y camp but that's just me. pile is in the plans weren't made in advance camp... but that's just pile.

i also think that such definitions often change when you see how the future unfolds. you never see him again? not a date. he calls you two days later and says "when can i see you again?" duh.

but it really makes you start to understand why "first world" humans are so fucked up when it comes to modern mating. here's kj with some friend who has a guy buying presents for the kids and the lady doesn't know if they're in a relationship or fuck buddies. or it's hypothetical but nonetheless true for someone.

i go out with a guy for about three hours and can't tell you if he's interested or if i'll see him again. i know which way i lean mind you but i have a terrible track record at getting this shit right.

my friend has sex with a man that he's buddies with and then the guy never calls him back... well not quite never but close enough.

someone feeds me food with their fingers and doesn't want to sleep with me.

i mean we're baffled these days. any of those things would have been considered major giveaways a while back. we would have known what the intentions were.

what i don't get is why we can't all have little necklaces that say 'player' or 'sincere' or 'slut' or 'just friends' or whatever on them so you just know. then you don't have to wonder if the pretty words are real or if they're just trying to get you in the sack or if they're even trying that at all!

and here's the thing, the players would know to leave me alone because i don't play that game nor do i understand it. they can chase their own kind and they'll all be perfectly happy.

but we have no known signals anymore. i'm amazed that anyone ever manages to hook up with anyone else. i'm further amazed that anyone manages to get through the first six months of dating and into the part where you're honest with each other.

pile had a point about that too. he told me that since he had met me he had taken to being much more blunt with people and that in some ways it stems from the times when i am most painfully blunt.

like the more uncomfortable what i'm saying makes you? the more you probably need to hear it.

he says that he's started calling people on it if they're social engineering or being drama queens or whatever. instead of just taking it or grumbling about it later he just up and says "but why? why would you say that when you know it's ridiculous?"

and this is because i am apparently rubbing off on him, and through him to his friends.

man dudes, that's fucking awesome.

i am causing other people to tell the truth. wow.

what's funny is how easy it is. like the other day pile came to dinner at othercat's. pile is a vegetarian so he just asked a little request so he wouldn't have to eat meaty veggie burger and it was granted and everyone was happy.

one second of extra work for the cook, that was it.

a year ago he would have just sucked it up and pretended that he didn't care that his burger was cooked on a grill covered in meat grease.

thirty seconds of conversation.

it's called communication and we're scared to do it.

it's just that i've noticed over the years that it's the things i DON'T say that cost me friends, not the things i do.

universally if i bite my tongue again and again i'll start to resent the person that i'm talking with and eventually stop talking with them. but when i suck it up and i say the hard thing?

i've been thanked for it almost every time.

like my wise sister says 'friends are the people who tell you the truth, especially when it's hard' because really, who else will?

and that's where dating is so hard. it's easier to tell someone you love the truth than someone you just met. and tragically it's then, that moment when you first meet where you most need to tell the truth.

ironically it's easiest to tell a stranger on a bus your deepest truths, but that's never a date :)

people remember those moments, the ones where they first meet and if you lie then they never believe a thing you say afterward.

but it's so hard!

and worse yet half the time you don't even know if you're on a date. you've actually met up to do something else or run into each other or randomly gone for beer and suddenly it's hours later and you've just told a whopper of a lie thinking they'll never see you again.

and then.

(why i never say things i don't mean lesson one)

then you've a lied and it's months later and you're in love. fucking sucks doesn't it? now you have to TELL this person you love that you lied for no reason the day you met.

and now you're a liar.

and it almost isn't even your fault. you didn't even know you were on a date and it was easier than explaining...


Blogger debambam said...

I've never understood the fascination with the whole 'dating' thing. We tend to not really have much of it here in aus, at least not where I grew up!! I have been on 3 'official' dates in my life, and none of them ended up being anything other than that one night!! All of my r'ships to date have come about as a result of initial friendships or just getting it on the first night we met :) But I think that there is only one rule to use....why play the guessing game? Why not just ask straight out??!! I've always been like that, totally upfront and honest. One guy I met on a Tuesday, made it perfectly clear I wanted to use and abuse him in a physical sense only and had accomplished that feat by the following Friday...another guy I went out happened because I said to him 'right are we going to see where this thing will go or not??? Cos i'm not playing games anymore' that one lasted 4 years...anyway, why hold back when it comes to dating when you tell it like it is in the real world? Where are the rules that says the other person is in control???!!!

6/28/2006 06:24:00 AM  
Blogger debambam said...

OMG!!! I'm first!!! And now second!!!!

6/28/2006 06:24:00 AM  
Blogger debambam said...

WOOHOO for me!! Third too!! I get the trifecta!! Where's my lollipop??? I'll stop now.....I promise..

6/28/2006 06:26:00 AM  
Blogger Natalia said...

You know...I have had the whole planned date and him paying and having the talk about the fact that we liked each other ... yet they were keeping their options or things fizzled out, etc.

And then, I have had the no planning or talk of "date" but it turned into a relationship.

Sometimes you have to have the "talks" ... sometimes all of a sudden you start speaking in "us" and no talk is needed.

But whichever way it happens both parties need to feel comfortable and understand where they are.

The beginning of getting to know one another can be a bit weird...looking for what the boundaries are and saying "I like you in sublte ways" so as not to put oneself out there too much.

I know it takes out the mystery...but I am all for letting feelings and intentions be known. Call me practical. There will be enough time for sweeping each other off your respective feet. But I like to know if someone paid for dinner to be nice or to woo me.

Damn I am verbose.


6/28/2006 06:57:00 AM  
Blogger Leigh said...

I like your neckless idea. Maybe this is why dogs smell each others asses! Some one needs to write a manual.

Happy Hump Day!!

6/28/2006 07:55:00 AM  
Blogger sassinak said...

deb: well i've never understood the whole fascination either and then i spent three years single followed by a month of seeing someone and back to single again.

i'm hoping my next drought is shorter. i'm in sort of a hump generation. kids today all do this group hangout thing that turns into coupling up and kids when i was in school dated rather than doing the group thing... or maybe it's not that, maybe i'm just not so good at it.

all of my serious relationships so far have either come out of meeting people online (and i don't mean online dating) or just meeting and 'knowing' so to speak. but even then there's a period of wonder at the beginning that i quite like.

i could ask straight out but i like the dance :) and i don't really think it's so much that the other person has control as that you're both taking steps to get to the same place. i'm totally upfront in my dealings in that i do not lie or mislead (although occasionally i say 'tell you when i know you better') but i don't necessarily at hour one in an initial meeting say 'hey i want to have babies with you' so to speak.

i used to hold back a lot more but this being a grown up with a mouth thing is fun. still i like the dance :)

omg you're third! *grin*

*solemnly hands over a rainbow lollipop*

nat: me too. and for the record i'm perfectly happy to go dutch but there is something charming about a man refusing to consider you paying. do you want that to become a habit? fuck no, that's not fair. but it's sure nice.

i've had all of those scenarios and they're all good. i think the ones where you don't need to talk have tended to work out better though...

and yes, if you don't feel right ? even if the sex is great or they're hot or they fit your 'list' or whatever... if you don't feel it you have to let them go.

yeah it's a strange time those first weeks when you're figuring out if you're friends or possible mates or nothing at all...

i am all for letting such things be known as well but within reason. like be honest but dont' be too honest. it is a fun topic though... if someone is going to buy me dinner once and never again i'd sort of rather ride the fun for a bit and then figure it out but i like crushes :)

verboseness yay!

leigh: i think the problems with manuals is that the second you write one someone doesn't fit into it.

even if most people do.

happy hump day to you! i'm stoked cause the neville brothers are tonight!

6/28/2006 08:21:00 AM  
Blogger sugarpunk said...

LMFAO! .. omg .. all i can say is WOW.. that is amazing stuff that flows from your head to your fingers... yeah A-FUCKING-MAZING

and now that we are to that point.. i am not going to speculate on IF it was a date or not..

6/28/2006 08:43:00 AM  
Blogger Natalia said...

Yeah I do like crushes. But I like certainty. I know some people get off on the mystery. I don't. Have you ever heard of Limerence? You should look it up; it's an interesting concept. I wrote an essay about it that got published sometimes last year. As Jmai said on her last post, as I get older I am starting to see the benefit of stability. And I am fully aware how boring it sounds cause I used to be one of those people who shunned routine. Don't get me wrong, I like surprises and I like keeping things lively and all of that...but I like reliability and all.

I am fully aware also that I am off on a tangent. ROTFL. I guess my train of thought is that I like honesty and honesty up front. Let me know what your intentions are and how you feel, even if all you can say is I have no idea how I feel but I kinda like you and my intention is to get to know you better and see if we "spark" and if not, so be it.


6/28/2006 08:46:00 AM  
Blogger sassinak said...

punk: you know me, can't say three words when three hundred will do :)

and thanks!

i'm not speculating either actually, i just think it's a fun topic and that's why i thought of it.

nat: i like both of those things almost equally. i think that the older i get the less certain of anything i am and it's why i like the dance ever more. it gives you time to think before you've said too much. i was much quicker out of the blocks when i was younger :)

i had distantly heard of limerence but i went and looked it up. the wikipedia entry seems relatively sane. i have definetely experienced that in my life but i don't consider it the same thing as the pre dating dance at all. they're definetely related but not the same. i can see how it differentiates from romantic love though.

i don't think it sounds boring at all. tell people how you feel for sure, but if i don't know how i feel i'm not going to say anything.

oh i love tangents, that's the point of starting broad discussions, seeing where they end up.

i am all about the honesty and even the kind you are advocating but i take a little bit longer to get there is all :)

6/28/2006 09:13:00 AM  
Blogger da buttah said...

it is what it is, no matter how you dress it up.

my longest relationship was a result of meeting some guy one night and being forced to spend time together because we were the only ones at the party who didn't know anyone.

not saying he was a great catch, or things ended on anything but a shitty fucked up note...but that's how it goes.

if it's meant to be, it'll be.

6/28/2006 09:39:00 AM  
Blogger debambam said...

i used to hold back a lot more but this being a grown up with a mouth thing is fun. still i like the dance :)
LMFAO women! This cracked me up...and I sometimes wish I had done that dancing your talking about a bit more, it might have been fun you know? But there is something to be said for the natural progression of a r'ship too...when you wake up one day and are a couple, with no conscious thought or planning...I love that....

Now as for my blog not letting you know when it's updated, can I ask what your subscribed with? Might I suggest you use the feedburner one on the site for whatever viewer you use? It all just went smoothly when I changed urls......with no work on the readers end! Of course you could get them in your inbox too, whatever turns your crank! I'm heading to bed....nearly midnight here..have a good one ok?

6/28/2006 09:53:00 AM  
Blogger Everything Nice said...

So many thoughts to this post that all kinda meld together.

I have never had to lie to anyone but I've been the recipient of such and it kinda sucks.

I love the fact that you said it's the things you don't say that cost friends, not the things you do.

Cut and paste that into your qoutes, it's a great one :)

Overall, whether it's a date or not it sounds spiffy, and that it fed your soul with something inspiring... even if you can't put your finger on it.

Props to Pile. :)

6/28/2006 10:44:00 AM  
Blogger JMai said...

I love those chance-encounter-type dates. Those are fun because there's no psychotic preparation rituals. It's just you and the person who wants to be with you happening to be in the right (same) place at the right (same) time and making the most of it. So there isn't the pressure of a planned date but there's still the small talk and getting-to-know-you bit and it's so much easier to slide into that bit -- with honesty!! -- than it is when you're on a planned date and the pressure's on to look lovely and be clever and attentive, yada yada.

That said, I think you were on a date! But I guess the future events that come out of your evening out will tell you for sure if it was or wasn't.

Also, how nice of you to treat pile!

6/28/2006 01:20:00 PM  
Blogger sassinak said...

elle: yup, a nice dinner with a new friend.

my longest relationship came from meeting a guy on irc... and then meeting up to hang out with weed and the hitchhikers guide to the galaxy... ahhh tr

there's something with the way dating happens for you that just isn't right and i wish i could see you in action to see what it is.

yeah dude, i'm a fatalist that way too.

deb: the dance, according to clarity, is what feeds you later when you're all tired of each other and shit. she thinks it's nice to have that to remember back to.

i just use blogrolling but your blog isn't in the list that pingw weblogs when it updates. i don't get stuff in my inbox, i get too much eamil as it is :)

but don't you think that natural progression is a dance?

6/28/2006 01:39:00 PM  
Blogger sassinak said...

bubbles: yeah it was really flowy and melty for sure.

when i was younger i told foolish fibs and always ended up losing things that mattered to me when i was caugth. since i'm a very very good liar (the secret is to BELIEVE it yourself) it didn't happen often but there are holes in places that shouldn't exist nonetheless.

it's for sure the things you don't say, hidden resentments always boil over.

okay. :)

it was spiffy, we had a very nice yakk and some all right food. and you're right, it did do that.

pile rocks yo, and he's moving out this weekend and i miss him already.

jmai: me too. whether they're dates or not they're nearly always awesome and much more natural. i've had them with people i was into and by the end of dinner i knew they weren't for me and it was all painless and stuff.

that's the best when that happens because you sort of solve something before it's a problem. this is especially good in a group where if you date like twice and then don't do it again the gossip gets silly.

yeah planned dates kind of suck :) well as first meetings anyway. i think you're right that the no pressure ones are easier honesty wise and i hadn't thought of it that way.

oh lord i hate the having to look lovely moments.

well it seemed only fair to pass it on right? :)

6/28/2006 01:50:00 PM  
Blogger Pyrhonik said...

Sass, you sure can wittle at the art inside the lumber. I try to let my brain flow through my fingers for the most part. Reading your posts has that feel.

I seriously don't envy anyone in the dating scene. At all.

As for telling the truth. I try hard to always be constructive with criticism and delicate with it's presentation. Not always easy. Never fun. I try to be truthful, cuz then you never have to worry about where you have been, there is no keeping track of what you have told, etc. etc.

But the one I'm guilty of is lying by omission. Yes it is a lie. Purposely omitting valid information or ominously not reporting the details which will incriminate is complete misdirection and thus: a lie. At least in my books, and I have worked my whole life on that one. Still do it occasionally, and not proud of it, but a guy can't be perfect either.

Feeding you food with my fingers is such an oral visual, who wouldn't want to sleep with you after that!

6/28/2006 03:23:00 PM  
Blogger Pyrhonik said...

Ok, now that I have read the comments section. I gotta say this.

The physical part is mother nature, and pretty much written already with accepted variations.

BUT the dance, that is where the magic truly is! You never stop dancing with some people, especially once you have reached a point where the discussions roam to uncharted subjects and tangents galore! I love the dance.

I love to dance to music as well!

Absolutely great post!

6/28/2006 03:36:00 PM  
Blogger Sweet Li'l Gal said...

... I think I agree with your friend about the date definition. I've had dates that didn't end in anything physical, including kissing, but led to good things later. But I don't think it's a date if you haven't pre-arranged it. I've been out for a lunch alone with someone that I crush on (and I'm married) but I didn't think of it at all as a date... in fact, to do so would have fucked with my mind a bit. It was spontaneous, and therefore, just "lunch" not a date. Now, if we arranged lunch again in a week, that would definitely classify...

6/28/2006 03:58:00 PM  
Blogger Everything Nice said...

Because you really liked it and I'm all about cheering you up before Piles move-on:

mememememmeeeee (finding octave)

Sit on my face and tell me that you love me...

I'll sit on your face and tell you I love you too...

I love to hear you moralize,
when I'm between your thighs,
you blow me away!!!

Sit on my face and let my lips embrace you...
I'll sit on your face and then I'll love you truly..

Life can be fine if we both sixty nine
If we sit on our faces in all sorts of places and play till we're blown away.


6/28/2006 05:29:00 PM  
Blogger Everything Nice said...


Not Piles... pile. jesus. I rock the typo today...

Only I wish it had been fruedian!

6/28/2006 05:30:00 PM  
Blogger SignGurl said...

It IS a confusing dating world out there. If someone fed me with their hands, I would think of that as flirting. If someone invited me to an impomptu dinner, I would call it a date. That's just me and proves that we all think of similar situations differently.

I love to idea of having necklaces. I snickered when I read the "slut" one.

6/28/2006 05:52:00 PM  
Blogger sassinak said...

Pyr: thank you, i consider that a stellar compliment. no really.

the dating scene sucks so many kinds of ass that i'm not sure i have words. for serious.

i try hard to do that same thing and i work hard to use euphemisms that are honest but gentle. i don't always succeed either and definetely the lie i am most guilty of is omission. but i don't (for example) pretend i'm single if i'm not...but i might not mention my std until date two you know?

if you were perfect what would be the point of life?

i could tell you who but yes, a man fed me food and treats with his hands repeatedly and claims to 'not be into sass that way'


pyr redux: you are right about teh physical. it's either there or it isn't. but the dance... oh the dance it's such a wonderful time in a relationship...

do you still dance at home ever?


sweet! your blog is back up!

hey i agree with my friend too, i don't consider that dinner a date although it has potential to LEAD to dating. to me dates are more clear cut... but it is fun to discuss right?

i don't know if a second lunch would qualify... only because there are people i eat with all the time and we're never going to date each other. ever.

but at the same time i can see where he's coming from.

6/28/2006 06:31:00 PM  
Blogger sassinak said...


*falls down on floor and swoons with glee*


i love you for that!

thanks, i think pile appreciates the correction! i wish he wasn't moving.

sign: oh man is it ever confusing.

dude i thought it was flirting too. i thought the way he always made us into an us had significance. there's a reason i had to write a letter to him in my blog just to let him go. the man fucked with my head.

i would call it a date if it happened again?

i would me "good girl, easy to woo"


6/28/2006 06:34:00 PM  
Anonymous gabriella said...

ahremm, arghm, ((the clearing the throat noise))

they can only fuck with your head if you let them.

rule number twelve: don't let other people fuck with your head.

among the 'rules regarding other people' number one is: don't ever permit people to have power over you, especially in absentia. that's the worst.

this isn't to say that i've never been adversely affected by the presence of fucked up people in my own life. but it seems the older i get the lower my tolerance becomes. it's that decrease in estrogen levels. i think estrogen makes women really stupid (myself included).

p.s. Michael Ignatieff got his nostril hairs trimmed. that's gotta be a good thing. a man with paintbrushes protruding from his nostrils is somewhat on the gross side. yuk. i wanted to congratulate him on this today and also to suggest that he take pilates instruction from you because he has such bad posture with zero core muscle tone, but my daughter told me she'd flee from the restaurant if i got up and actually did this. so i didn't.

6/28/2006 06:47:00 PM  
Blogger Everything Nice said...

I would be "unpredictable" just for shits and giggles.

No problem lovey, hope your day gets better and better with every breath!

OMG gab compared nostril hair to paint brushes!!! LMAO!!

oh man oh man... this has been a banner day for certain.

6/28/2006 06:54:00 PM  
Blogger kathi said...

It's always the little things that come back to bite us in the ass.

Yeah, don't think I'd want to be single...ever again. Just isn't what it use to be.

6/28/2006 07:24:00 PM  
Blogger Kristen said...

Sass, what an awesome post. I'm tempted to print this out or copy and paste it on my blog........seriously this rocked.

I hate dating

6/28/2006 07:53:00 PM  
Blogger terry said...

EN, thank you for the monty python interlude. i can never have enough of those.

and sass, dating bites. the dance is great fun -- the flirting, the wondering -- for awhile.... but when you get to the point where real feelings have developed and you're in the is-this-a-date-or-what place... THAT sucks ass.

i have never understood why it's so hard to get past so much of the bullshit in dating.

6/28/2006 09:41:00 PM  
Blogger sassinak said...

gabi: i say *clears throat*

you are totally correct. the man i wrote a letter to a while back fucked with my head because i handed my power over to him. these days i'm keeping my power all to myself.

i think you're right about absentia. if someone is there you have tons of chances to sort of set reality on yourself. if they aren't you can let your imagination run wilder...

we've all let ourselves get taken in by people that we shouldn't have, it's almost a fact of life i would say. and i feel you on the tolerance thing. i am getting less and less able to cope with stupidity in any form... and it's getting worse.

hrm you think it's an estrogen thing? i though mine was all over the place since i'm hitting the end of my fertility.

oh man. that mental image is going to haunt me for weeks. weeks.

i can so imagine your daughter saying that. i do appreciate the idea, i'm down a little since i haven't been out shilling for myself and it's summer.

bubbles: that you would darlin' but on the back it would say 'firmly married'

well i just got back from the neville brothers and at the end of the night someone told me i should be illegal in three states...

so it was good.

your day yesterday rocked, is today better still?

6/29/2006 01:39:00 AM  
Blogger sassinak said...

kathi: yup

it's not any fun that's for sure. there's a huge pile of lost people wandering around wishing they were in relationships and too embarassed to do anything about it. such fun. yeah.

kj: you have my permission to do with this post as you wish just sign it -sass or -sassinak if you please :)

dating fucking sucks. how's it going with mr. w?

terry: she did it on her blog TOO!

the dance is so wonderful but there's a presumption that everyone is playing by the same rules or at least honestly... and that can be a problem because a lot of people aren't.

the thing is a real dance moves past the opening steps and it's almost like these days no one quite knows how to get from that initial spark to more. but people do it all the time right?

me neither babe. why can't we all just tell the truth?

6/29/2006 01:47:00 AM  
Blogger Pyrhonik said...

"The dance" in a relationship never ends in my opinion. It might ebb and sway but that is the welding around the connection between two people, and as you grow and live it's that dance of the minds which never tires.

And yes I dance at home with my babes every time I get home. Especially my 3 year old! Something about 3 years old that they gotta be moving all of the time and she just figured out that twirling is soooooooooo much fun!

6/30/2006 12:04:00 AM  
Blogger sassinak said...

pyr: yeah i think that's true, i think when you stop dancing you're done.

or put it another way? my parents STILL think they're each the most interesting person they've ever met.

and they're still having a great time together forty years later.

i love that you dance with your kids, i bet they adore you for it.

6/30/2006 01:00:00 AM  
Blogger Pyrhonik said...

There are two things that I do unashamedly: dancing and singing with my children is one of them.

This is part of my post tonight.

Goodnight Sass,

6/30/2006 02:11:00 AM  
Blogger sassinak said...

pyr: nice!

that is a fantastic thing to do unashamedly. how many do you have?

i'll read it when i get back from work.

morning pyr

6/30/2006 07:31:00 AM  

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